About my Motherland, the Assembly of the People and the Constitution
The national “card” … The question is extremely difficult and to a certain extent delicate. But it is impossible to bypass or somehow silence it. Moreover, in the light of past events. So, what do the deputy Temir Sariev and the head of the Slavic Foundation Vladimir Vishnevsky think about this, you will learn from the TV show “Evil Pen” (Internews) and our joint project. The hosts are Dinara Suimalieva and Vyacheslav Goncharov. We would like to remind you that you can watch the program “Evil Pen” on KTR (on Friday, 17.10.), Astv (on Monday, 20.00), NTS and on regional channels. The Kyrgyz version can be read in the Agym newspaper.
D.S .: – Did the excitement at the doors of the Russian embassy that we saw after the pogroms sleep?
Vishn .: – In general, the mood has not changed, we can see even today long queues at the Russian Embassy. This does not mean that the migratory mood, for example, has increased 5 times. People simply apply to the migration service in order to obtain the status of a migrant, but they can leave much later.
V.G .: – There are a lot of Russian-speaking population in your district. What are the migration sentiments there, are people going to leave or not?
Sar.: – Now there is a quiet tendency to the fact that people who do not have certainty develop some kind of inner fear. Drive through Sokuluk now, you will see many ads for the sale of houses. And this is not only in Sokuluk, in many places. Even the price of real estate began to fall because supply exceeds demand. I recently spoke with people who work in the real estate market. They say the price has dropped by 15-20 percent compared to the situation before March 24. I understand that 5-10 percent is a seasonal decline, but when it rolls over 20 percent, this is a signal for the authorities, for the government, that we take some adequate and quick measures.
D.S .: – In your opinion, those anti-Russian leaflets or rumors about anti-Russian leaflets are a manifestation of everyday nationalism or is it someone’s political provocation?
Vishn .: – I can firmly say that everyday nationalism took place in the early 90s and, thank God, during these almost 15 years of the post-union period, it practically exhausted itself. And today the concept “Kyrgyzstan is our common home” works at the household level and even at a large regional level. Therefore, I consider this a political provocation, and it is my firm conviction that the relevant services should react to such provocations. I regret that not a single criminal case has been initiated into the distribution of such leaflets.
Sar.: – I was probably one of the first to encounter such moments. When the land grab began, the first incidents related to the national question appeared. The Orok village is inhabited by Turks who were resettled here during the war. They went to their home and said: “You are Turks – you must go to your homeland.” And on the second or third day, especially in the lower zone, leaflets began to appear. And I feel like somebody has played very clearly here.
I can’t even fully understand what they want? If the old government is taking revenge, it would probably pay attention to other points. Because Akayev was very strongly supported by the Russian-speaking population. So I don’t think this is the old government. It is also unprofitable for the new government, Bakiev, because he is counting on their support (in the elections. – Author). It is also difficult to talk about third forces, because they are all naked and we already know who represents whom.
V.G .: – And how can it end?
Sar .: – This is the most difficult question. I am still worried about what is happening here in Bishkek and in Kyrgyzstan in general. After all, the wave of lawlessness does not stop. Look – the events took place on March 24, then pogroms, land seizure, after that they began to seize akimats, regional administrations, then they went to enterprises, began to seize entire joint-stock companies, then they began to seize courts, then those bodies that are called upon to ensure law and order – the SNB ! That is, this wave of lawlessness, irresponsibility, impunity leads to the fact that these problems go deeper, deeper and deeper. It will reach the point of absurdity if the government does not use the power of power and establish order and legality.
D.S .: – Today all politicians are trying to earn points on statements about the protection of the Russian-speaking population. Are they taking any specific measures or not?
Vishn .: – To be honest, as a person born in Kyrgyzstan, this offends. And it insults me as a Russian person. I don’t need to be protected. I will defend myself. This is not the problem. And the point is not that Russians or Turks are threatened today, or someone else. We have a Constitution, there is no need to defend the Russians, everyone must comply with the laws. Many Russians were born and raised here. And let someone try to tell me loudly that this is not my Motherland. This is more my homeland than anyone else’s.
Sar .: – You just have to take and establish the rule of law, law and order.
V.G .: – So you think that nothing is being done except for statements now?
Sar .: – Do you feel that something is being done? If the Ministry of Health is captured, is your soul calm? If the Supreme Court is seized, is your soul calm? I judge by the actions of the authorities that they are taking. If it doesn’t do something, then we must say that it doesn’t. If she doesn’t know what to do, we tell her: establish law and order. If you can. If you can’t, make room for someone who can. Nobody here asks to use force, to introduce a state of emergency. We just need political will – to say: guys, that’s enough, have played, from today we begin to live according to the law. That’s who entered the Ministry of Health – about 30 people – so we need to take them all and bring them to justice, on a legal basis.
D.S .: – The Slavic Foundation is a member of the Assembly of the People of Kyrgyzstan. But the Assembly has never specifically addressed the problems of national minorities and has always been such a prostitution organization in favor of the authorities of today or yesterday?
Vishn .: – I disagree with you to a greater extent. And I partially agree.
Why don’t you agree? We have dealt with many interethnic issues. In particular, there was a case when an almost interethnic conflict developed between Turks, Ukrainians and Russians in the Moscow region. We arrived and solved these issues. And the law enforcement officials thanked us. I can give many such examples. And the interethnic agreement that we still have today is due to the symbiosis of the work of the Assembly of the People of Kyrgyzstan and the authorities. No matter how hayali Akayev is today.
Sar .: – In general, the creation of the Assembly of the People of Kyrgyzstan was a good idea. But the former government began to make politics out of it. And basically, I’m not afraid to say this, there were people in it who were closer to the old government and solved their own problems, and not the problems of some ethnic group or cultural center. To date, I assess the Assembly’s activities as zero. Empty place. Because there is no authority, no faith, no clear political and civic position. They did not play their unifying role.
D.S .: – You were simply used for the needs of that government. When at a certain moment it was necessary to collect the opinion of an imaginary majority, they immediately recalled the Assembly.
Vishn .: – I do not agree with you. Let’s be honest. Our regionalism is very strongly developed (more than an interethnic problem. – Auth.). North-South, these two factors always work in elections. But here’s the other side. Recently in the Assembly, and I have spoken about this aloud, the personnel policy is not quite reasonable. Well, look, if we are the Assembly of the People of Kyrgyzstan, then why is our top fully represented by the Kyrgyz? In the Russian Federation, the Assembly of the People of Russia is headed by Abdulatipov. The Dagestanis are minuscule in the demographic aspect of Russia, but small ethnic groups there actually participate in the work of this Assembly. After the death of Sopubek Begaliev, the Assembly began to degrade in terms of leadership.
D.S .: – Begaliev was also Kyrgyz.
Vishn .: – Yes, but under Begaliev representatives of other ethnic groups were deputies. And today, when the leadership has only the titular ethnic group, they do not always feel all the subtleties and all the problems of other representatives. This is an inflection point.
VG: – The problem of the representation of the Russian-speaking population in the government remains and is even getting worse. Is this representation also one of the stabilization factors?
Sar .: – Previously, they tried to attract people to power structures, to trust high positions not to those people who have real authority, but based on how loyal they are to one person. And it turned out that the interests of entire ethnic groups were ignored, knowingly appointing very weak representatives from among them. We should not proceed from the assumption that there must necessarily be a deputy prime minister from the Russian-speaking population. Let him be prime minister or deputy minister, but this person must be authoritative, professional. And here it was: Prime Minister Tanaev is obviously a weak figure, but he exists – the Russian-speaking population is represented.
Vishn .: – You are absolutely correct in emphasizing this problem. De jure, in the Constitution, we state that the Russian language has the official status. What is being done today? Again, a linguistic commission for the knowledge of the state language is being created. Already here it is a precedent that no other state in the world has. That is, the language is used as a tool to prevent representatives of other ethnic groups from entering the sphere of government. Another point. Look into our legislation, say, elections. When we carried out the constitutional reform, we raised the issue that there should be a solid instrument of representation of ethnic minorities in the legislative branch. For example, in the USSR there was a Council of Nationalities. If he did not accept a question, he had the right to veto. Why not take this path? We insisted on this. Declaratively, the Constitution provides for equal rights regardless of nationality; in fact, there is no instrument in public administration where this slogan would be embodied in real life. Therefore, today we are raising the question – it is necessary to create a committee on national and regional relations, which would delegate their representatives well at least numerous ethnic groups. But de facto this body does not exist, and everything that is being said today (during the pre-election campaign everyone says: here I will defend the Russians), these are naked declarations.
Prepared by Tatiana Orlova.
Material address: //www.msn.kg/ru/news/10143/